2004-04-21 [StupidStuff]: Done for now

2004-04-23 [xido]: Holy shit, dude, this rocks.

2004-04-23 [StupidStuff]: thank you I try....

2004-04-27 [xido]: I think it might be nice for their counterparts on the other side of the world to have similar castes, but different names, since they've been divided so long. The Twisted Horns should be the Noregad, and a red-furred, red- or white-horned variant, known as a Monan, or what THEY call a 'Red Horn', even though not all of them have purely red horns....some have white horns, or a streaked or gradient look of either white, pink, or red horns. Gogann is a Monan, and the father of a Twisted Horn, along with a Noregad female. Monan are related to Horns of Lok, Red Horns, and Twisted Horns. Monans prefer Cleric, Paladin, or Sorceror as a class, with a lean toward transmutation and shapeshifting.

2004-07-30 [sealaryn]: can people join and how do you me name is sealaryn

2004-07-31 [xido]: yes, what class/caste are you interested in? [Torr-maat] is the one to message about a game... it may take a little while.

2006-09-15 [Torr-maat]:

Back to Archives of the Horns of Torrant

2007-05-03 [xido]: I just changed ownership of this, but it is still only editable by its owner... now you. ;)

2007-05-03 [xido]: I also recommend doing line renditions of these symbols on a paint program. Did you load Jasc onto Chris' new PC?

Whenever you get done with that disk, let me know. I want to get it back from you when you've got it fully installed on a computer there. ;)
Linking: minotaur

2008-02-17 [xido]: These Castes will all get a figure drawing image, for a final lineup of all Castes (Lineage/Races). This will be included in the Creature Compendium (or a few separate images of a select few), and given a full lineup in a Zendelon-specific publication.

We should also decided what sort of 'typical' Half-Castes would be possible in Iashtarania'ishen.

2008-04-03 [xido]: I didn't realize this was only editable by you. No worries. However, I was thinking you might want to post in the Cross-breed section that this type of racial mixing was typical primarily to Ishtarania'ishen. I also had an idea for Ishtarania's past, and how it relates to Torrant and Minoa. Question: we know that Diamos and Gogann are both descendants of Torrant. Who is the child and where did the lineage go? If you don't already have an answer, I may have an idea.... I will will speak to you more about it in the horns of torrant.

Also, I have invited [Artsieladie] to be involved in organizing and collecting Elftown artwork, and if she has time I have asked her to attempt some minotaur images, which she may or may not do. I directed her here to this page for reference in the Jashnian sub-species (the Castes of Minoa).

Even if she doesn't try it, I will begin laying out the lineup image layout for placement of final character images.

Looks like thirteen castes in total, plus the Ishtaranian Cross-caste(s)... Right?
-will

2008-04-04 [Artsieladie]: Hi! I've reviewed this page & I see the different horn styles/types. I looked at minotaur as well. I probably could make a few bull/bull type heads, but I'm not all that good at the human body form. Perhaps, I could make some heads & maybe someone like [Linn Scarlett], who's very good with human form, could make the bodies? No? Yes? ;P

2008-04-06 [Linn Scarlett]: Why, I am flattered Artsie, I really am *hugs*
To get to business, I've a half a dozen characters (even a half bred one) amongst the minotaur, roughly spread over the various social classes from a prince to a citizen, a merchant sailor, a captive in Gor-Gornoth (drow city), an a half bred drow to clip the top. I aught to have art of them laying around, I shalleth have a looksie so I can show you my style/work.

2008-04-06 [Linn Scarlett]: Excuse the enormous size. This is the only one I could find, so I took a quick pic of it. It features my Drow character Linnerial with her most recent acquisition, Brucellius. Her husband Lucieus bought him for her after her (other) 'slave' Wulfgar died. Though only after realising how much his wife missed the annoying Human barbarian XD

2008-04-06 [Linn Scarlett]: also, artsie, the only truely distinquishable feature is there head and horns, putting little need for full body showing no? Also, Torr, how are you towards the physicals? My personal renderings of Minotaurs for say have fur all over their body, a bull's tail, thicker fur from their knees down, hooves and three fingers on each hand :) And as you can see, I've a bias towards Minotaurs being over 7 feet :p
And on a second, more biological account, how is the gene pool? Are they different species or subspecies? (different species can't interbreed for example, subspecies can)

2008-04-06 [Artsieladie]: Nice! *hugs back* Right. Their heads & horns are or seem to be the most distinguishable. ;)

2008-04-07 [Linn Scarlett]: I mean, a cock's a cock not? (it's a figure of speech, complicated story :p) The differences are in their heads... or ARE they? XD

2008-04-10 [Artsieladie]: *nods* I understand. Something like: a spade is a spade is a spade. *thinks got the saying right* I would say so...the heads & the shape of the horns. :P

2008-04-10 [Linn Scarlett]: Yeah 'a cock's a cock' is a litteral translation of a dutch proverb. Seeing as the dutch translation of cock, aside from the male genitals, also means the male body in general, excluding the head. So ... yeah XD I admit it sounds weirdish in english though :p And you're right about the spades.

2008-04-10 [Artsieladie]: I like this one: If one walks like a duck & quacks like a duck, then they must be a duck! "Quack! Quack!" *silly* ;P

2008-04-10 [Linn Scarlett]: *chuckles* there are a lot of good proverbs in this language :)

2008-04-11 [Artsieladie]: Yes, there are. :)

2008-04-11 [Linn Scarlett]: I wonder when the owner of the page will return among the living

2008-04-11 [Artsieladie]: Hmm...maybe [xido] knows the answer? ;)

2008-04-11 [xido]: I love the pic, Linn. Way cool. I know Torr-maat is super-busy with work right now, but I'm sure he'll see this edit the next time he logs on.

We're also missing a subspecies: Bloodhorns. They're the smallest, and most wreckless of the bunch. We definitely need a write-up for them as well.
-will

2008-04-11 [Linn Scarlett]: He, don't look at me! I am the dumb drawing force here XD *doesn't know swat* I only know what I read here above *point point point* How small is smallest? I like my minotaurs big ;)

2008-04-11 [Artsieladie]: *tries to appear invisible* he he Don't look at me, either. I only know what I read here, too. >..<

2008-04-11 [xido]: Well, believe it or not I know that information only because I was in the same town as Torrant for so long while he ran minotaur games the last few years. I think technically that's inside information.... O.o

I think Bloodhorns are about 3-5 feet (?) but big scary horns and a bloodthirsty rage. They are like tiny powerhouses of minotaur might and doom. x.xp
-will

2008-04-11 [Linn Scarlett]: They are shorter even than Logan? And he's only barely half an inch taller than me XD Thats outragious, should be forbidden! XD

2008-04-11 [xido]: :P Should be... It may be that they are a rare subspecies/caste.... ;)

2008-04-11 [Linn Scarlett]: I like minotaur, but that, dear Xido, was the biggest turn off in a century :p

2008-04-12 [xido]: x.xp

2008-04-12 [Linn Scarlett]: seriously :P

2008-04-17 [Linn Scarlett]: Hm the only character I have that weighs near half a ton is my Demon Overlord, who's half Balor half Drow. I've a half Drow half Minotaur myself, result of the above shown characters. Well, I have to say all my minotaur knowledges is firmly lodged in my readings of the Minotaur Wars trilogy. That's really all I know, so I based my characters off them. I've a personal preferance for tall muscular men, so that could be the deal with the whole lengt ;) and minotaurs are considered humanoid and interbreedable in DnD general too so, just wanted to make sure and ask if you had any different ideas. Though Minotaur-mom and other-dad kids are more frequent in my story than the other way around, even though the other way around occures much more (kidnapping and counter-rape are a major issue where my characters come from. the minotaurs are the only race really able to resist the raid assaults of the Drow). Why these minotaur-dad other-mom kids don't usually survive is very simple: the minotaur himself kills them off, the woman dies waaaay before even being near term, or she dies during birth for the obvious reasons of her womb and channel not being made for half minotaur babies. The other way around is more frequent for the last reason, a half minotaur i think is a smaller baby so a minotaur cow would have no trouble. and the drow usually keep these offsprings because they are 'better slaves' as they usually have dark vision and such like their drow parent.

2008-04-17 [Linn Scarlett]: so erm yeah XD did another shot of my minotaurs and their 'owner' (they're slaves in this story :3) I did it today to show off my minotaur skills ;) hope you'll like it. Clické-vous: 

2008-04-17 [Linn Scarlett]: one more: how can a subspecie be strictly male? thats biologically impossible, as they would have to breed somehow. And if tey breed with another subspecie its impossible for the children to be of theirs... or is that my biological university mind kicking holes in the idea of random fantasy logic?

2008-04-20 [xido]: Try thinking of the Castes not as much like a subspecies, but like a genetic trait. Minotaur traits in Minoa are specific, and the castes are reflections of the DNA's ability to form the minotaur creature into a specific niche of existence.

With this idea, being born is not like looking like your parents. It is like being born to ants or bees, where your genetic makeup influences your social standing, and not the other way around.

If there were ever a male produced from a purely female line, or if a male caste found a female of that caste, because of the culture's somewhat semi-militaristic approach to society they might simply kill off the child, or allow it to be misplaced in a way in which it would forever be lost or not survive. These situations would be a rarity, if anything.

In Ishtarania'ishen on Qor, the Minoan bloodline did some funny things. It's because the Ishtar separated culturally and theologically from the Minoan culture, and then became a little more mixed, liberal, and even a bit softer than their previous cultural heritage.

Awesome pics, Linn. Very inspiring. I'm excited to finally see the drafts for a lineup come together for these figures. Let me know if you need further ideas for body shape of each, since each one has a little bit of a different feel to it. I would say the most common version of a minotaur in my mind is a simple (Common) Minoan. Not that scary thing from the Monster Manual though. That thing is icky and angry.

2008-04-20 [Linn Scarlett]: Hmm the Minoan makes me think of Belpheron -the one with the kilt- he's a generally easy going person too and very curious as may be noted from the drawing XD It was a shot I did for [melcinitan] latest story, where he made my character Goddess of Creative Ars, Leasure, Sex and generally all things fluffy ^_^

2008-04-20 [Linn Scarlett]: I still have a difficulty to get my head around understanding the whole idea, but that might be my biological mind getting the better of me. It's how I was and am being schooled after all ;) Anyway. I'll nodd and do as the page says XD

2008-04-24 [xido]: Right, it's high fantasy, which means that just about anything is possible. The important part is that they look particular, and so they can be any of the available genders per their caste (subspecies, or niche).

Think of it society affecting genetics, instead of genetics simply influencing society without the reverse being true. Minotaurs have adapted this mode of living through cultural separation from other continents, as well as by 'divine forces'.... you know, the BIG divine forces in the sky... On a little blue planet named Gaia/Tiamat/Earth, somewheres off along in the cosmos.... ;) :P

I am excited about this. Even a couple of sketches of these castes will give me enough to begin working on a lineup illustration for them in my new software for school.

Just got Adobe Creative Suite 3 for this program and my new class schedule... Very exciting! ;)
-will

2008-04-24 [Linn Scarlett]: Hmm sounds good enough, I'll give it a shot when I have time, though I fear that might be after my excavations of this year :/ which could very well run far into July :/

2008-05-02 [xido]: July-August is not too late. I appreciate the help, and I'm sure Maat does too. ;)

2008-05-03 [Linn Scarlett]: I should hope so ;)

2008-12-13 [Artsieladie]: Hmm...what happened here?

2008-12-14 [Linn Scarlett]: I donno

2008-12-28 [xido]: I think I know, but it's not worth discussing.

My official answer:
emotionally irrational moments of resentment toward the gaming community for not fulfilling expectations laid down by this page's creator.

I doubt we will ever witness its return, believe it or not. *sighs*

2008-12-28 [Artsieladie]: I see.... erm... no, I don't see.

2008-12-30 [Linn Scarlett]: Nope, me neither